Mother Stories
Meet Butchers and New Mamas Erika Nakamura and Jocelyn Guest
Written by Erin Feher
Photography by Photography by Winona Barton-Ballentine
Jan 21, 2020
Today’s mamas are truly emblematic of the subtle yet undeniable power of women to change the world for good. These days, when Erika Nakamura and Jocelyn Guest tell their story, it can sound, on the surface, just like two new mothers making some big life changes to better suit their new roles as parents. The married couple and high-profile NYC butchers left the grueling restaurant world to have a baby, move to the country, and start J&E SmallGoods—a line of uncured hot dogs, bratwurst, and smoked kielbasa (all made from heritage pork and grass-fed beef, without preservatives). But get them talking, and you quickly realize that the difficult career decisions that they had to make were done with an eye towards a future where women and working families could be better supported in the culinary world, and where being a success and being a mom weren’t viewed as an impossible pairing.
At the time they decided to have a baby, Erika and Jocelyn were co-owners of White Gold, an Upper East Side butcher shop they owned with April Bloomfield and Ken Friedman. They left in 2018, after allegations of Friedman’s history of sexual harassment emerged. But it wasn’t just the toxic, male-dominated environment they wanted to leave—it was the culture of proving your worth by how much you sacrificed and how much abuse you could put up with. Today they reside in an old family-owned farmhouse in Westchester with their 18-month old daughter, Nina, and a couple of cats, working just as hard, but in a more sustainable way, to grow their new business and be the kind of working parents and employers they think the world needs more of. We recently spent a typically slow day with the two, walking the icy woods on their property, playing with sweet little Nina, and of course, cooking a fantastic meal. Click through for a full tour and to read our interview with these two amazing mamas.
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JOCELYN: "The house belongs to Erika’s family. Her parents and all the siblings co-own it. We moved here about 18 months ago!"
ERIKA: "My family purchased the house in 2003, and my parents lived here until a couple of years ago. There were tenants in the house until I got pregnant and we decided to move out of New York City."
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JOCELYN: "We try to keep it pretty laid back and—hopefully—tidy. We like it to be functional in addition to nice looking. I hate when you walk into someone’s house and are scared to sit on the couch. I want people to sit on the couch! I’ll just fluff the pillow afterward, duh."
ERIKA: "We really tried to put our mark on it while preserving the unique characteristics of what was already here. For example, the kitchen and dining area has vintage Poggenpohl cabinets and countertops, which were installed in the late 1970s. There was brown floral wallpaper on the walls, which really made the room feel dark. While we initially struggled with whether or not to keep the vintage cabinetry, we chose to slap a layer of light teal paint on the walls, which brightened everything up, brought out the accents, and highlight the uniqueness of the cabinets."
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JOCELYN: "We redid the downstairs bathroom because a.) it was intense and b.) we wanted to have a counter big enough to use as a changing station on the first floor when diapers dominated our lives."
ERIKA: "Now that the changing station downstairs has been removed, we plan to fill the corner of the counter with a variety of indoor plants to bring some life into the bathroom."
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- Teaching Nina about the important facts of life.
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JOCELYN: "I really, really love hand-me-downs. My mom bought the rocker in our living room in the '70s when she lived in Laos. She made the blanket on Nina’s crib. The chair at the foot of her bed my dad gave to my mom as part of an engagement dining set—is that a thing anymore?"
ERIKA: "I love to collect taxidermy and cowhide rugs. I think it looks really great next to some of our old butchery memorabilia."
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JOCELYN: "The living room is our office, basically. Who doesn’t want an office with a fireplace? We have a lot of skulls as decor—comes with the territory of the trade, I guess—so that kind of led it to a vaguely Southwestern feel. But then, my vintage dentistry pull-down chart just takes the whole room in a wild direction. The main thing was that Erika got to paint the walls the color she always wants to paint the walls—a dusty mint green."
ERIKA: "It's an odd compulsion, but I’ve used a similar color in every single dwelling for the last fifteen years!"
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JOCELYN: "I love the rocker in the living room. And I love all the art in Nina’s room. We have her astrological chart, a picture Erika painted when she was 10 of fat ladies in bubbles, and a rabbit encouraging courage!"
ERIKA: "There is the skull of a steer that belongs to an animal I butchered almost 10 years ago. It’s rare to be able to get your hands on a cow head as it is, and even harder to find someone who is familiar with the process of preserving the bones. Every time I look at it, it makes me feel how vast life is, and allows me to check my privilege at the door."
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JOCELYN: "She’s vaguely localizing in the kitchen/dining room, because we spend most of our time there, but we’re thinking of moving all her stuff upstairs and turning the guest room into a play room. She doesn’t come with a lot of 'stuff'—her favorite toys are the cardboard tube from an empty roll of paper towels and an empty jalapeño tin, so it’s not that big of an issue for us."
ERIKA: "The older she gets, the more gifts she receives from loving and kind friends and family. Some of those toys are large and loud and bouncy, and we both know that there will come a time soon when those things start taking over. I think it will be very nice to have all of those things in one place, especially so that I don’t trip on them or break any of her favorite things..."
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JOCELYN: "Oh man, everything. Nina is already the coolest, funniest, smartest person I’ve ever met. I just feel honored to be along for the ride."
ERIKA: "To have the privilege to observe the most tender parts of someone is something that blows my mind. To watch her expression as she sees and experiences things for the first time, to see the wheels turning in her head, to witness what challenges her and the small joys she experiences…it’s so intimate and precious."
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JOCELYN: "Her inheriting any of my issues—mostly my fear of bugs. I try to stifle my urge to squeal and run away from vermin. I also try to never complain about my body issues in front of her. I know she’s not even 18 months, but that stuff gets in your veins."
ERIKA: "I’m the most nervous that one day someone is going to discriminate against her for having two moms. There isn't a doubt in my mind that she’ll know exactly how to handle it, but I hate knowing that she’s going to find out one day that the world isn’t only made up of people who smile and wave at her. That there is an ugly side, too."
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JOCELYN: "We did find out. I didn’t want to, but Erika said there would be enough surprises along the way, so why not find this one thing out? At the end of the day, her body her choice! For the next one, when it’s my turn, we won’t. I’m excited about raising a strong women who believes in herself and knows what she deserves and doesn’t deserve. It’s a wild, largely horrible world we’re sending our kids out into and I just want to make her the baddest B she can be."
ERIKA: "I wanted to know if we were having a boy or a girl right away. If it was a boy, I would have felt a true challenge and privilege to raise an incredible guy who was sweet, sensitive, caring, respectful, and who understood his privilege as a man. If it was a girl, I would honestly do the same, so either way, it didn’t matter. I wanted to know who we were going to be welcoming into the world, and I wanted to form an early bond with her while she was in utero. As soon as I found out, I began having small conversations with her, so that she would know me, too."
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- Deck the halls with bacon.
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JOCELYN: "It was very important to us to find a name that was workable in Japanese. Nina is. It has direct characters associated with it. Boy, was it hard to decide! We had at first chosen Mae, but then when Erika was six months pregnant, we both jumped ship."
ERIKA: "Then we told my mom that we were going to name her June. To which she said, so what’s next July? We stopped sharing with others after that, but Nina stuck and never went away."
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- The skull of a steer that Erika butchered.
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JOCELYN: "Nina is obsessed with our cats, much to their chagrin. She’s very into anything mobile. Her balance bike, her push walker thing, this monstrously loud puppy we just acquired from her auntie. If she can ride it or climb it, she’s down."
ERIKA: "She loves cruising around and trying to find a cabinet that she can open. Once she can sneak her little fingers in until it’s open, her favorite thing to do is to remove every item in the cabinet, one by one. She likes to examine each item, even really heavy ones, and then passes it to me to show me what she’s found."
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- A sweet corner of the nursery, hung with an illustration Erika painted at age 10.
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JOCELYN: "We just wanted the nursery to be chill. We keep toys to a minimum in there. When we’re in the nursery, if it’s not diaper changing or picking out fly outfits, it a place to mellow out, read a book, sing some Extreme, and go to sleep."
ERIKA: "It’s such a special place—we wanted it to be a collection of some of our favorite things from our childhood, as well. Along with the quilt made by Jocelyn’s mom, there is an illustration that I made when I was in 5th grade, which made it into a gallery show and I made in collaboration with my mother."
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- Art everywhere.
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- JOCELYN: "Yes! Erika was ready before I was, but I just blame that on the age difference."
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- ERIKA: "I carried first because I’m a few years older than Jocelyn and I didn't want to miss out on the experience of carrying a child. We knew that we wanted our respective biological children to be blood related, so we purchased enough sperm to, hopefully, last us through both of our pregnancies. We chose a half Japanese, half Irish/Scottish sperm donor, because I’m half Japanese and Jocelyn is Irish/Scottish. We wanted there to be a strong ethnic connection there, also because we felt that our parents could better connect with our children that way. Whether or not that is actually true is another story, but it’s how we felt. My mom got us sperm for Christmas one year, and I got pregnant with ease about a month later!"
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- ERIKA: "There were some difficult things going on at work, and Jocelyn and I had discussed the possibility of us both leaving once I got pregnant. We did not expect to get pregnant so quickly, so we stayed at our jobs a while longer. I really felt a strong desire to be pregnant in the country, so we moved out of the city at the end of the first trimester."
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JOCELYN: "We didn’t read a thing. I tried to read something about being a good birth partner but put it down about 30 pages in when it talked about preparing for a stillbirth. I was reading it on my morning commute and didn’t think that was necessary."
ERIKA: "I wanted to know first-hand what pregnancy felt like, and wanted to organically feel it out for myself. I wanted my maternal instincts to kick in, which they did! So, no books for me."
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JOCELYN: "We both look up to our moms."
ERIKA: "I’ve really come to admire a few celeb moms who are really doing it. Reese Witherspoon, Chrissy Turlington, and Jennifer Garner are a few of my favorite moms. But more than anything, I look up to all of the single moms out there, pushing hard everyday to do the job that two people struggle to maintain. They are the true superheroes of our generation."
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JOCELYN: "Mine was pretty strict. My mom is a minister and my dad is a retired Army general, so we didn’t exactly get away with crap. But, I liked it. I’m a rule follower by nature and it didn’t really occur to me to rebel. I will definitely make Nina way more comfortable talking to me about poop or sex, however."
ERIKA: "I was the most rebellious of all of my siblings. In many ways, I paved the way for them. I think I challenged my parents to the extent that I really pushed them to their limit, and often took us all into an uncomfortable place. But that made my parents extremely introspective, inquisitive, supportive, and understanding. They treated me like an adult and tried to understand the subtle things that made me, me."
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- Winter walks with her mamas.
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JOCELYN: "I definitely have expectations and am trying to slowly let her know about them. When we’re waiting on a line I explain to her that it’s our turn to wait and we can’t act up because sometimes you have to wait, etc. I just want to raise a kid who is polite. Oh, god, please let her be polite. My thinking with that is to lead by example—if Erika and I say our pleases and thank yous, hopefully she will, too."
ERIKA: "I worry from time to time that Jocelyn thinks that I am going to make her the bad cop so that I can be the good cop. But the truth is, good, bad, or not, I want to be the kind of parent who really hears my kids. I want to be approachable and available in a way that my parents were not always. I want to be firm but loving, clear about boundaries, but just in the way I see things. I want to be thorough and calculated in my decision making, but tender and generous when it comes to insecurities and failures."
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JOCELYN: "Honestly, it makes me want to take Erika and Nina and get the heck out of dodge."
ERIKA: "I worry that the current political climate may escalate into a situation that is hard to avoid. When there is a hateful leadership, it gives people a reason or excuse to act in ways they never would under different leadership. Inclusivity is so important. But I also worry that the current political climate stretches beyond the borders of our country. Just like love is infectious, so is hate. So, I find it that much more important to influence our children and the next generation to lead with their hearts and to build and support our communities. The work that we do as butchers and chefs is politically charged—we view our roles as proprietors, as creating a safe space for dialogue in our community, and as educators—about how to be self-sufficient in the kitchen, how to consume with a low-carbon footprint, and how to be inclusive by cooking for your friends and neighbors. We hope that is a good start."
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- ERIKA: "Don't worry about what other people think or say to you—this is your body, your family, your flesh and blood. Trust your gut and your instinct as a mother. No one is perfect, but you can sure as hell try to be. And to be generous to yourself, because this is going to be the hardest, most beautiful, and powerful thing you’ll ever do."
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- ERIKA: "The plan has always been to have Jocelyn get pregnant next. We’ve been told that having two kids in diapers at the same time is the best possible scenario, and will take pressure off in the future, no matter how tough it can be at first. We firmly believe there is never a better time—you can never be prepared enough. So, you never know…there just might be another one some time soon. Fingers crossed!"
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- JOCELYN: "Erika and I are whole animal butchers. Last year we launched a sustainable sausage and deli meat company called J&E SmallGoods. We started our CPG (Consumer Packaged Goods) company in hopes of achieving work-life balance. We couldn’t be in a professional kitchen anymore once we had a kid."
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- JOCELYN: "I’m an Army brat and moved a lot as a kid. I wound up in Virginia and was there until the day after college graduation—from UVA—when I moved to NYC. I was an English major in college, which I highly recommend. You get to read all day, learn how to write a convincing—or scathing—letter, and don’t need a calculator. After college, I worked in magazines then moved into comedy and then, naturally, butchery. A common career path."
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- ERIKA: "I was born and raised in Tokyo. I moved to the U.S. when I was 17 years old to finish high school. I graduated with a BA in sculpture from Antioch College in Yellow Springs, Ohio, and moved back to NYC shortly after. I worked for some time as an adjunct art teacher, and taught in NYC's Department of Education after-school programs. I also worked as a set builder and a fashion window merchandising specialist before I chose culinary school over pursuing an MFA. I lived in Redhook, Brooklyn for years and loved it."
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- Icy days out in the country.
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- JOCELYN: "Grandma (Erika’s mom) is 20 minutes away and regularly saves our lives. My mother drives up from Virginia to give Erika’s mom a break and stays for a week. Plus, Nina has the most incredible chosen—our choice, not hers—aunties and uncles a girl could wish for. They bang down the door to volunteer to babysit when we have work."
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- JOCELYN: "Be too dumb to realize you could just simplify your life by working for somebody else."
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- JOCELYN: "Sure, kind of. We’re very fortunate in being able to move our schedules around for Nina. But, oh boy, the guilt is real when there’s a bad diaper rash. Erika is a very good at talking me off a ledge."
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- No better way to warm up than a hot, home-cooked meal.
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- ERIKA: "New York City has its perks, but it's incredible to have space, fresh air, and nature to expose Nina to at such a consistent rate. She gets to eat crisp, clean snow right off of the ground, touch branches covered in ice, and to look at the sunlight beaming through the leaves and the trees. It's quiet and still, and so special."
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- ERIKA: "As much as we love where we are, we certainly feel the itch to move on. We’ve made many considerations, like school districts, proximity to playgrounds, diversity, and cost of living. We plan to stay put until we figure out where the wind blows."
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JOCELYN: "We often do family hikes, either in Mountain Lakes Park or Ward Pound Ridge. We mostly cook at home."
ERIKA: "During the warmer months, we frequent Harvest Moon Orchard, where they have a few farm animals for Nina to coo at, and a little cider bar where us moms can enjoy some local ciders and craft beers. They sell gorgeous heirloom vegetables and the best cider doughnuts we’ve ever had!"
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- ERIKA: "We do our best to be our unapologetic selves every day. Jocelyn loves big messy hair, while I love a neat, well-coiffed pomp. Jocelyn loves a power clash, while I tend to go for some sort of uniform—Catholic school ruined me. I often do not realize when I’ve dressed Nina is the same outfit or color scheme as myself."
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- JOCELYN: "Shockingly, no. I spilled food on myself for years before Nina came along. I guess now I wear less overalls in case I have to hold her while I pee. Overalls are hard."
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JOCELYN: "Jeans, turtlenecks, and button-downs. I just really want to dress like an ‘80s grad student meets effortlessly chic French school child."
ERIKA: "I love denim everything. I wear different washes, shades of denim, along with plain white tees, solid color shirts, and lots of indigo. And white sneakers!"
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JOCELYN: "One of my friends started a skincare line called Peet Rivko. It’s uber natural and so amazing. She makes a body oil that we actually used on Nina’s cradle cap and for Erika during breastfeeding. I like nice face wash and moisturizer, but that’s about it. I gave up a makeup bag almost a decade ago."
ERIKA: "I’m a clean freak when it comes to personal hygiene. I scrub every inch of my body, including the space between my toes. I meticulously dry every crevice of my body when I'm done. I am partial to naturally fragrant body products, and think about ingredients often. I particularly love Aesop products!"
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JOCELYN: "Not yet?"
ERIKA: "We are still working towards a better routine. Jocelyn just started to write again, which is a really big deal. During the warmer months, I like to jog around the reservoir near our house, and Jocelyn likes to jump rope. We love taking long walks and hikes with Nina in the woods behind our house, as well as some of the state parks near us."
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JOCELYN: "I am still working on that. With a small business you never really stop working. Right now, for instance, it’s 10 o’clock at night and I’m drinking seltzer and answering these questions. Then I have to send out wholesale sausage orders."
ERIKA: "I’m currently prioritizing the growth of our child and our business. We are working on making sure that we stick to date night. It’s been incredible to be able to rely on our parents for child care so that we can spend time visiting new restaurants, and old ones we love."
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- No band purees for this baby.
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- JOCELYN: "It’s all I think about. I feel like it’s my purpose."
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JOCELYN: "To find more fun!"
ERIKA: "I view 2019 as the year I spent selfishly getting to know Nina and understand our family dynamic. 2020 is the year that we all take a jump start into the rest of our lives—to find a firm footing, to gain clarity in where we will end up, and to know that we can do anything if we all stick together."
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Yes! I love this. Everything is so on point – from the hair, to the home to the love. Loved this interview/photoset and love seeing queer mamas on the site :)